Okay so after class on Thursday I stayed to talk with Dr. Borders about this and now I want to see what anyone else thinks. Please don't limit this to one person. I really want to know other peoples opinions on this.
So we talked about death (kind of a big deal). This lead me a question I've had for a long time. Try to follow this.... We think of time in a chronological sense called Chronos. Then we (GENERALIZING) also believe that God does not follow and is not limited to this idea. We say that "God's time" is Kairos. It's hard to explain Kairos because we all find it so hard to not think in chronology. But the Bible says God is, was, and will always be. Think that but all at once. Okay, now that my horrible explanation is done I'll give you the question.
Predestination.... most people I know don't like the idea because of the "no free will" thing. My question is that if we truly believe that God is not in "our time" but "God's time,"(Kairos) can't predestination and freewill exist simultaneously?
A thought and answer that I toss around is that yes they can exist. God knows what we're going to do before we do it, not because he has planned out every step in our lives, but because he is omnipresent through time and is simultaneously there when we make each decision. Or something like that.
The other thing that I question is how the Parousia will happen. When we die do we stay in our sense of time and actually wait out for the Second Coming? Or when we kick the bucket do we join God in "His time" and enjoy the Parousia right when we die? I don't think there are definite answers to either of these questions. I'm just looking for your opinions on it.
J-Pow
I grew up in the Presbyterian Church and I have always attempted to articulate what I think about predestination...and you have done it. Why can't both free will and predestination exist?! I think they do. God is all knowing...why do we try to limit his knowledge? When I was younger I just told people that I thought God knew me well enough to know what decisions I would make before I made them.
ReplyDeleteThe second part...I don't have any idea. I don't think that we immediately go anywhere, but I'd like to think that since we are no longer living that we won't know (or wont be able to tell) how long that wait will be.
This is one of those crazy questions that nobody likes to discuss! But since you asked...
ReplyDeleteI believe that predestination and free will can go hand in hand simultaneously. In fact, I agree with a lot of what John Calvin has to say about the matter. The Lord has no time line because He is omnipotent. Therefore, he does know the outcome of it all, who gets to go to heaven and who doesn't. So therefore you could say that there is an "elect few". But I do not believe any one of use know who they are and have the right to judge who they are. But when it comes to the "once saved always saved" issue is when it gets iffy. So yes, God knows when it's all going to happen, but I believe we still do have a choice in who's will we want to follow (whether it be God's will or our own will).
And about death. That question stumped me my freshman year when I had Dr.B for New Testament. After spending lots of time in the Word trying to find the answer, I came to this conclusion: because of the way it is described in books like Revelation and in 1Thessalonians, when we die, we sort of go to sleep until Christ comes again. And the dead will rise and get to be with Christ.
1Thessalonians 4:13-18 says:
"13 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died[a] so you will not grieve like people who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died.
15 We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.[b] 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died[c] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words."
But who knows if I and anyone else who believes this is right. Honestly, it doesn't matter a whole lot to me. But it's cool to think about these things and to have an opinion. Sorry it's so long! =)
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ReplyDeleteNo!!! Courtney you beat me to it! As I was typing all of this up you must have commented before me! Oh well. I'm not going to find someone else's blog. So we can share. I'm sure Jon wouldn't mind =)
ReplyDelete